Matt O'Keefe of Comics Beat did an interview with me covering a number of topics that included the origins of the Bitter Script Reader, writing spec episodes and how Twitter has opened doors for me.
You can check it out here.
Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts
Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts
Wednesday, May 29, 2019
Monday, May 20, 2019
BLOOD & TREASURE co-creator Matthew Federman talks blending treasure hunting with terrorists, focus groups, teaching history and staffing
This week marks the launch of CBS's new summer adventure series, BLOOD & TREASURE, detailing the adventures of a former FBI agent and a thief as they race to get to Cleopatra's remains before a madman who sells blood antiquities to fund terrorist attacks.
Matthew Federman is the series's co-creator and executive producer, with writing partner Stephen Scaia, this is his first series on the air after a long career in TV that began on JUDGING AMY and included such series as JERICHO and HUMAN TARGET (both of which he was on with friend-of-the-blog Robert Levine, who I interviewed long ago here.) His credits also include WAREHOUSE 13 and LIMITLESS.
Matthew was kind enough to answer a few questions about the series, the writing process that goes into blending an Indiana Jones-type romp with terrorism and what he looks for in a writing staff.
Unlike most of the shows that were just ordered off of pilot season, BLOOD & TREASURE was a straight-to-series order. Can you talk about how that impacts the creative process when your focus from the start is telling an entire season's story? Is it different breaking a season when you don't have a completed pilot as a proof of concept for the room to work on from the start?
My writing partner Stephen Scaia and I sold the show with a script and bible that laid out the first season—which would have been the same in either case. So going to straight to series didn’t really affect the creative process that much for us. We still started the room with figuring out the big picture stuff, how to make the arc we had work, and then diving into 102. It did mean starting without knowing who our actors were which is a little scary because you don’t know who you’re writing to, but our cast ended up being amazing and very much what we had imagined so we didn’t need to tweak things too much for them.
Here’s how it did affect things: our first episode ended up being huge, like 10-15 minutes over. They told us it was long and we kept cutting it at script stage but somehow it was still way long. Had it been a pilot we would have had to cut a lot of stuff that we loved to deliver it and since the show is so serialized we probably would have lost some key plot elements. But because we were straight to series we were able to move a chunk of 101 into 102 in editing (basically all of the original Act 4).
We had called it a two-parter anyway and in our hearts hoped that they would do a two hour premiere which we thought was the best way to launch the show based on our story. We were told in no uncertain terms that that would not happen. The issue wasn’t creative, just corporately it’s a thing CBS doesn’t do. Then when it came time to do focus groups the biggest issue that came from the groups was they didn’t like how it ended. Almost every question they had would have been solved by the old Act 4 that got moved, or the rest of 102. One of our great execs suggested they try testing 101/102 together for focus groups to see what affect it had and the change was stark—most of the issues went away immediately.
To our great relief they decided to air it as a two-hours pilot. Creative people knock focus groups but they really saved us in this case, and I give so much credit to the Studio and Network execs for being flexible and doing what was best for the show. They’ve been great collaborators. The other thing going straight-to-series affected was our big set—Antony and Cleopatra’s tomb—which launches the show. The set is crazy awesome. And really expensive. Like more expensive than a lot of pilots, for a set you’d only see once (as far as we knew). But because the cost was spread over 13 we could do it and really introduce the show with size and scope that you normally don’t see on Network TV. And then we had this giant, beautiful set just sitting there and we thought, okay, maybe we can get some more use out of it. So you’ll see versions of it again, including in the two-hour pilot in a flashback. We really got our money out of that space and in the end its very existence affected story.
The promotion material for the show underlines the fact that your villain is funding his terrorist activities with the sale of stolen antiquities. Can you talk about integrating this aspect of real-world terrorism into what also plays as an Indiana Jones-like treasure quest romp?
We had learned that a major source of funding for ISIS (behind oil) was that they would loot antiquities from the regions they were in and sell them on what is now referred to as the “blood antiquities market.” Then (as with Palmyra) they would blow up the big structures they couldn’t move for PR value, drawing attention to their group. We thought we had a unique opportunity to talk about some real world issues around blood antiquities (a market created by wealthy people and museums) through the filter of a fun adventure show.
And while that seems counter-intuitive, we had a model in Indiana Jones for how to do it. The Nazis are real bad guys who committed vast atrocities. They give everything stakes—but the adventure is still fun because you’re with Indy and he has a great character story going on with Marion and the audience wants them to win—and get together. We decided to fictionalize our bad guy for a number of reasons, including not wanting to be insensitive, but also to give the show the ability to be a little lighter. We didn’t want it to feel like the show 24 with treasure.
There's a promotional video out where several of your actors talk about how the scripts integrate real history into the show's mythology. I'm sure that plenty of events are fictionalized. Can you give us some sense of the thought process behind where real history takes a left turn into BLOOD & TREASURE history? We know that this is a race to find Cleopatra, which hasn't been found yet in real life. How do you build that kind of quest in a way that feels credible and fun at the same time?
Our thinking is, there’s the stuff in history we know—that stuff we don’t mess with. There’s the stuff we don’t know because the history is lost—that stuff we can play around with, so long as we’re not impugning anyone with how we fictionalize it, or making up anything that feels contradictory to known events or people.
I think it should be pretty clear when we’re saying something known or we’re playing in our sandbox, our characters—mostly Danny, sometimes Dr. Castillo—usually says some version of “We believed [X] was the case but what if [Y].” Our hope is it ignites an interest in history for people who can then search out the stuff we’re taking off from and learn more about it, but we need to do it in such a way that it doesn’t completely slow down the story to become a history lesson.
The same video also discusses how the show takes us to the Mediterranean, the Middle East, Cairo, Paris, London, the Alps, Turkey, Rome... and Boston. On any show you're going to have to deal with the logistics of location. When you're talking about a globe-trotting show that presumably doesn't have the budget to go anywhere. How much work goes into picking those locations, because I assume it's not a case where you can go, "The African desert fell out, we need the story to work for the woods of Vancouver."
We let the story dictate the locations at first. We knew the show would be Middle Eastern/Western Europe focused because of what our story was. The whole center of the season though we weren’t sure where we’d go. Our production is based in Montreal so we knew the looks/countries we could represent there. We had some ideas for where else we’d go that would make sense. But as the story went forward the writers pitched something that would mean going to Morocco which wasn’t planned and I said, “Let’s hold on and talk to Steve about how reasonable that is.”
Stephen was focused on the production side of things which eventually meant living up in Montreal and also taking a world-wide scouting trip to see locations before later going abroad to shoot. Steve talked about the idea with our producing partners and one of them said we could go to Morocco, and in fact get a lot of great looks for different places there. So a big part of our plan changed, but it started with the story.
What it comes down to is we know every episode should hop around a little, so we try to get the story working knowing those movements will be necessary. We talk a lot about building things modularly, which means the story can change locations, or even the planned action can change, but what happens story-wise doesn’t need to change (aside for some tweaks) because it’s about how our characters are either working together or failing to.
You've mentioned on Twitter that this was your fourth or fifth effort at doing a treasure hunt show. Can you talk about what was it about this show that got a green light and what might have been missing in those earlier attempts?
It absolutely got the green light this time because of the stakes that using the real world ISIS issue gave us. In the past we had to kind of narratively explain why culture and art were important so when it came down to people dying over them it would make sense…and it’s a tough buy for a lot of people despite that we know it’s true historically (including groups like the Monuments Men in WW2 that literally put themselves in danger to protect cultural heritage).
Looking back on it, I’m glad it took this long and this was the one that got made because Stephen and I are better writers and producers, we never could have made the show this way in the past because it wasn’t really being done. Also, our cast is amazing and our leads Matt Barr (Danny) and Sofia Pernas (Lexi) have this crazy chemistry that really pops off the screen and makes the show work on a level it never could have before. I’m not one of those people that says “everything happens for a reason” but in the case of this show it feels that way.
I'm curious what you looked for when you were assembling your room. You've worked on a number of shows, you've seen how plenty of staffs work. What was at the top of your mind when you were assembling your team for BLOOD & TREASURE?
We look for a staff that represents the places that the show would be going. Diversity wasn’t just a mandate we were given, it was for us a necessity to be able to tell this story that spans cultures and is about how they clash and how they work together which is basically the story of history. (Also with explosions! Don’t worry, it won’t feel like homework!). So we wanted a staff that could give an International perspective, and then we also looked for people that got the show, not just what the show did on the surface, i.e. “it’s fun” but people who saw the show we were really making beneath that.
One of our early meetings first season was with a brother/sister writing team (Siavash and Dana Farahani) who were born in Iran and lived as refugees for a time after their family fled. They mentioned an early scene in the script when Danny first comes to recruit Lexi to go on this adventure because he believes he needs her unique skillset how despite being locked up in a police car, Lexi isn’t convinced to go with Danny at first. The thing that changes her whole demeanor and shifts the scene is when Danny mentions the Pyramid that was attacked (which starts our show). Lexi, an Egyptian, immediately loses her snarky combativeness—jaded as she is you can see how affected she is by the loss to her country and her culture. It’s the appeal to that loss that gets her to go on the journey.
They got that moment in a way a lot of Americans wouldn’t have. It was the moment I knew we’d be hiring them. Because they got that the show was about this intersection between history, culture and identity—which then we put through the fun filter.
We joke that the show should taste like cotton candy and then expand into a steak in your stomach. It is intended to be a fun adventure, and in a TV landscape of very dark shows (many of which I love) we think that is something people will be hungry for. If a family sits and watches the show, the fun is probably all the kids will see and we think that’s great. But hopefully the parents see there’s something more going on. Everyone we hire is someone we think can bring that dual perspective to the show: how can this say something while also being a ton of fun?
If you're looking for more of Matthew's insight into TV writing, check out this three part twitter thread about what he learned running the writers' room during season one. (All parts linked here.)
BLOOD & TREASURE premieres Tuesday, May 21 on CBS at 9pm,
Matthew Federman is the series's co-creator and executive producer, with writing partner Stephen Scaia, this is his first series on the air after a long career in TV that began on JUDGING AMY and included such series as JERICHO and HUMAN TARGET (both of which he was on with friend-of-the-blog Robert Levine, who I interviewed long ago here.) His credits also include WAREHOUSE 13 and LIMITLESS.
Matthew was kind enough to answer a few questions about the series, the writing process that goes into blending an Indiana Jones-type romp with terrorism and what he looks for in a writing staff.
Unlike most of the shows that were just ordered off of pilot season, BLOOD & TREASURE was a straight-to-series order. Can you talk about how that impacts the creative process when your focus from the start is telling an entire season's story? Is it different breaking a season when you don't have a completed pilot as a proof of concept for the room to work on from the start?
My writing partner Stephen Scaia and I sold the show with a script and bible that laid out the first season—which would have been the same in either case. So going to straight to series didn’t really affect the creative process that much for us. We still started the room with figuring out the big picture stuff, how to make the arc we had work, and then diving into 102. It did mean starting without knowing who our actors were which is a little scary because you don’t know who you’re writing to, but our cast ended up being amazing and very much what we had imagined so we didn’t need to tweak things too much for them.
Here’s how it did affect things: our first episode ended up being huge, like 10-15 minutes over. They told us it was long and we kept cutting it at script stage but somehow it was still way long. Had it been a pilot we would have had to cut a lot of stuff that we loved to deliver it and since the show is so serialized we probably would have lost some key plot elements. But because we were straight to series we were able to move a chunk of 101 into 102 in editing (basically all of the original Act 4).
We had called it a two-parter anyway and in our hearts hoped that they would do a two hour premiere which we thought was the best way to launch the show based on our story. We were told in no uncertain terms that that would not happen. The issue wasn’t creative, just corporately it’s a thing CBS doesn’t do. Then when it came time to do focus groups the biggest issue that came from the groups was they didn’t like how it ended. Almost every question they had would have been solved by the old Act 4 that got moved, or the rest of 102. One of our great execs suggested they try testing 101/102 together for focus groups to see what affect it had and the change was stark—most of the issues went away immediately.
To our great relief they decided to air it as a two-hours pilot. Creative people knock focus groups but they really saved us in this case, and I give so much credit to the Studio and Network execs for being flexible and doing what was best for the show. They’ve been great collaborators. The other thing going straight-to-series affected was our big set—Antony and Cleopatra’s tomb—which launches the show. The set is crazy awesome. And really expensive. Like more expensive than a lot of pilots, for a set you’d only see once (as far as we knew). But because the cost was spread over 13 we could do it and really introduce the show with size and scope that you normally don’t see on Network TV. And then we had this giant, beautiful set just sitting there and we thought, okay, maybe we can get some more use out of it. So you’ll see versions of it again, including in the two-hour pilot in a flashback. We really got our money out of that space and in the end its very existence affected story.
The promotion material for the show underlines the fact that your villain is funding his terrorist activities with the sale of stolen antiquities. Can you talk about integrating this aspect of real-world terrorism into what also plays as an Indiana Jones-like treasure quest romp?
We had learned that a major source of funding for ISIS (behind oil) was that they would loot antiquities from the regions they were in and sell them on what is now referred to as the “blood antiquities market.” Then (as with Palmyra) they would blow up the big structures they couldn’t move for PR value, drawing attention to their group. We thought we had a unique opportunity to talk about some real world issues around blood antiquities (a market created by wealthy people and museums) through the filter of a fun adventure show.
And while that seems counter-intuitive, we had a model in Indiana Jones for how to do it. The Nazis are real bad guys who committed vast atrocities. They give everything stakes—but the adventure is still fun because you’re with Indy and he has a great character story going on with Marion and the audience wants them to win—and get together. We decided to fictionalize our bad guy for a number of reasons, including not wanting to be insensitive, but also to give the show the ability to be a little lighter. We didn’t want it to feel like the show 24 with treasure.
There's a promotional video out where several of your actors talk about how the scripts integrate real history into the show's mythology. I'm sure that plenty of events are fictionalized. Can you give us some sense of the thought process behind where real history takes a left turn into BLOOD & TREASURE history? We know that this is a race to find Cleopatra, which hasn't been found yet in real life. How do you build that kind of quest in a way that feels credible and fun at the same time?
Our thinking is, there’s the stuff in history we know—that stuff we don’t mess with. There’s the stuff we don’t know because the history is lost—that stuff we can play around with, so long as we’re not impugning anyone with how we fictionalize it, or making up anything that feels contradictory to known events or people.
I think it should be pretty clear when we’re saying something known or we’re playing in our sandbox, our characters—mostly Danny, sometimes Dr. Castillo—usually says some version of “We believed [X] was the case but what if [Y].” Our hope is it ignites an interest in history for people who can then search out the stuff we’re taking off from and learn more about it, but we need to do it in such a way that it doesn’t completely slow down the story to become a history lesson.
The same video also discusses how the show takes us to the Mediterranean, the Middle East, Cairo, Paris, London, the Alps, Turkey, Rome... and Boston. On any show you're going to have to deal with the logistics of location. When you're talking about a globe-trotting show that presumably doesn't have the budget to go anywhere. How much work goes into picking those locations, because I assume it's not a case where you can go, "The African desert fell out, we need the story to work for the woods of Vancouver."
We let the story dictate the locations at first. We knew the show would be Middle Eastern/Western Europe focused because of what our story was. The whole center of the season though we weren’t sure where we’d go. Our production is based in Montreal so we knew the looks/countries we could represent there. We had some ideas for where else we’d go that would make sense. But as the story went forward the writers pitched something that would mean going to Morocco which wasn’t planned and I said, “Let’s hold on and talk to Steve about how reasonable that is.”
Stephen was focused on the production side of things which eventually meant living up in Montreal and also taking a world-wide scouting trip to see locations before later going abroad to shoot. Steve talked about the idea with our producing partners and one of them said we could go to Morocco, and in fact get a lot of great looks for different places there. So a big part of our plan changed, but it started with the story.
What it comes down to is we know every episode should hop around a little, so we try to get the story working knowing those movements will be necessary. We talk a lot about building things modularly, which means the story can change locations, or even the planned action can change, but what happens story-wise doesn’t need to change (aside for some tweaks) because it’s about how our characters are either working together or failing to.
You've mentioned on Twitter that this was your fourth or fifth effort at doing a treasure hunt show. Can you talk about what was it about this show that got a green light and what might have been missing in those earlier attempts?
It absolutely got the green light this time because of the stakes that using the real world ISIS issue gave us. In the past we had to kind of narratively explain why culture and art were important so when it came down to people dying over them it would make sense…and it’s a tough buy for a lot of people despite that we know it’s true historically (including groups like the Monuments Men in WW2 that literally put themselves in danger to protect cultural heritage).
Looking back on it, I’m glad it took this long and this was the one that got made because Stephen and I are better writers and producers, we never could have made the show this way in the past because it wasn’t really being done. Also, our cast is amazing and our leads Matt Barr (Danny) and Sofia Pernas (Lexi) have this crazy chemistry that really pops off the screen and makes the show work on a level it never could have before. I’m not one of those people that says “everything happens for a reason” but in the case of this show it feels that way.
I'm curious what you looked for when you were assembling your room. You've worked on a number of shows, you've seen how plenty of staffs work. What was at the top of your mind when you were assembling your team for BLOOD & TREASURE?
We look for a staff that represents the places that the show would be going. Diversity wasn’t just a mandate we were given, it was for us a necessity to be able to tell this story that spans cultures and is about how they clash and how they work together which is basically the story of history. (Also with explosions! Don’t worry, it won’t feel like homework!). So we wanted a staff that could give an International perspective, and then we also looked for people that got the show, not just what the show did on the surface, i.e. “it’s fun” but people who saw the show we were really making beneath that.
One of our early meetings first season was with a brother/sister writing team (Siavash and Dana Farahani) who were born in Iran and lived as refugees for a time after their family fled. They mentioned an early scene in the script when Danny first comes to recruit Lexi to go on this adventure because he believes he needs her unique skillset how despite being locked up in a police car, Lexi isn’t convinced to go with Danny at first. The thing that changes her whole demeanor and shifts the scene is when Danny mentions the Pyramid that was attacked (which starts our show). Lexi, an Egyptian, immediately loses her snarky combativeness—jaded as she is you can see how affected she is by the loss to her country and her culture. It’s the appeal to that loss that gets her to go on the journey.
They got that moment in a way a lot of Americans wouldn’t have. It was the moment I knew we’d be hiring them. Because they got that the show was about this intersection between history, culture and identity—which then we put through the fun filter.
We joke that the show should taste like cotton candy and then expand into a steak in your stomach. It is intended to be a fun adventure, and in a TV landscape of very dark shows (many of which I love) we think that is something people will be hungry for. If a family sits and watches the show, the fun is probably all the kids will see and we think that’s great. But hopefully the parents see there’s something more going on. Everyone we hire is someone we think can bring that dual perspective to the show: how can this say something while also being a ton of fun?
If you're looking for more of Matthew's insight into TV writing, check out this three part twitter thread about what he learned running the writers' room during season one. (All parts linked here.)
BLOOD & TREASURE premieres Tuesday, May 21 on CBS at 9pm,
Monday, March 2, 2015
Writer/director Riley Stearns and actress Mary Elizabeth Winstead on FAULTS: Part I - Origins of the story
Writer/director Riley Stearns made his first splash in the film world when his acclaimed short THE CUB debuted at the Sundance Film Festival in 2013. That ended up opening the doors for him to write and direct his first feature, FAULTS, which premiered at last year's SXSW in Austin, Texas.
FAULTS stars Leland Orser and Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who also happens to be Stearns's wife. If you don't know Mary from her acclaimed performance in Smashed, you need to rectify that immediately, but I'm willing to bet you've seen her in films as diverse as Sky High, Live Free or Die Hard, The Spectacular Now, the Death Proof half of Grindhouse, and Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.
I saw FAULTS at last year's AFI Fest and was a big fan of it. Honestly, it'd be an impressive work even if it wasn't the product of a first-time director. It's a tense movie about a disgraced cult deprogrammer who's hired by desperate parents who want him to deprogram their daughter, who was recently taken in by a cult.
It's been playing the festival circuit for months and is finally coming out in limited release and on VOD this Friday. Recently I sat down with both Riley Stearns and Mary Elizabeth Winstead for a chat that spanned the writing of FAULTS, the issues surrounding good roles for women in film, the challenges of making a first feature, and much more...
Bitter Script Reader: Why FAULTS? Where did this come from?
Riley Stearns: The boring answer is that I’ve always been fascinated by cults—
BSR: If that’s the boring answer, this is going to be very interesting.
RS: What’s funny about that is even as a kid I was fascinated by cults and I don’t think a lot of kids are, but there was something about the idea that you could be like a really intelligent person, very strong minded and you can get sucked into something that somebody else can indoctrinate you into, so the idea of cults was definitely the impetus of that.
There was this COPS episode that I was watching with my dad when I was a kid and there was this deprogramming where the girl called the police and said, “My parents have kidnapped me and are holding me in this room.” The police came and interviewed the parents and were able to discern what was going on. And at the end they said, “Your parents know what’s best for you so you should stay with them. We’re not gonna file a report or anything like that.”
BSR: This made it to air on COPS?!
RS: I feel like this was an episode I saw when I was a kid. I tried to do research on this episode because I knew I was gonna be asked about it after I put it in some director’s statement I did and I can’t find any evidence that this episode actually exists. But in my memory it’s so real and I remember my dad saying, “They knew what was best for her,” like the parents are trying to help her. But as a kid, I realized there’s something really weird about an adult being told what to do.
And I can’t find any evidence that episode was a thing, so I’m trying not to talk about it as much, but as a kid I realized that deprogramming was the craziest, coolest thing and as I got to be an adult, I realized not a lot of people had done a story about deprogramming, at least not the way I wanted to do it. By the time I was ready to write a feature script, that idea was still there.
BSR: Is this your first feature script then?
RS: No. I’ve probably written five or six feature scripts. All of them are shit. FAULTS is the first feature script that I actually think is good. Mary would say otherwise--
Mary Elizabeth Winstead: They’re all good. They get better and better, as they should.
RS: Yeah. My first feature script ended up being 40 pages long. Since I was 18, I’ve written five things other than FAULTS. The other thing about those scripts is they were all copying other people’s styles. I’m glad I wrote them now, but the thing about them I don’t like is that they’re like [me doing] Garden State, mixed with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. My second one is a Tarantino rip-off. It still wouldn’t make a good movie, but as a writing sample it worked out well. My next was a Scott Pilgrim-style script that I still think is funny, but I don’t think it would make a good movie.
BSR: I see them going in line with Mary’s career there.
MEW: I know! Yeah! [laughs]
RS: It totally is! Those are the scripts that I was reading.
BSR: It kinda seeps in.
RS: Exactly! You write what you know, people say, but in this instance I was just copying what I knew. It led to me finding my voice, which is what I think was important.
BSR: My first feature was a procedural and when I took it into my screenwriting class, they were like, “This is great. I can totally see the LAW & ORDER cast in it!” Yes, yes, you nailed me.
RS: You have to do that though. It’s very rare for a writer to come out and have it but just their voice. And even now I feel like I’m probably copying somebody.
BSR: It’s like a synthesis. The Tarantino thing. He takes a little bit from different people and mixes it into something new. With FAULTS, did you set out deliberately to write something that was low-budget and easy to produce?
RS: Definitely. I wrote it thinking that I would have to Kickstart it, because we did that with THE CUB. We got like $5000 for THE CUB, thinking for the next thing we could get $50,000-$100,000, thinking I could do this on my own, not realizing that had I done this on my own, I wouldn’t have been able to find the motel room. [We wanted to make the motel room] its own thing. It’s very brown, and a lot of production design. If I was doing that on my own it would have been not as good.
BSR: Does working within the limitations of a low-budget kind of define how you’re gonna create the characters and the themes you’re working with, because you’ve gotta have something compelling enough to stay in that room?
RS: I felt like the story itself could sustain being in a small, contained location. I’ve always been good at character. I feel like I’m good at each character has their own voice. A lot of scripts you read, every character sounds like that writer’s version of the character. I feel like one thing FAULTS had was, here’s this weird, eccentric deprogrammer and the subject who he was deprogramming. It wasn’t necessarily budget-driven at all. I feel like even if I had a lot of money, that would have been the same thing that I wrote. But location was the big thing about budget for sure.
BSR: Now Mary, I had a question for you. As Riley’s writing this, I assume you know you’re gonna act in it. Were you feeding him “I’d love to play this kind of part” or “Don’t do this because I hate when I see this in scripts?”
MEW: I don’t know... I was so excited as I was getting the pages of what he was writing but I was also really scared because the character he was writing for me just seemed really, really hard. She’s sort of enigmatic and doesn’t give much away, but also has to be really complex and I was sort of like “I don’t know how to do this.” I loved Leland’s character so much, Ansel, and was like “this character’s sort of flashy and fun!”
BSR: “Can you make him a woman in his twenties?”
RS: The only thing that Mary said that influenced the script in any way was we got to a point where, like 40 pages in… she said, “Ansel’s so cool and eccentric. Can Claire have any of that?” And so the next day I wrote the scene where she does the screaming thing, just because I wanted her to do something weird, and it ended up being one of my favorite parts in the whole movie.
MEW: At that point, Claire was just doing a lot of explaining about what the cult is, so I kind of was poking him a little bit, “give me something.” And I still was scared to play the role even at the end, but then once we were doing it, it was like the most fun I’ve ever had in a role, but I didn’t know what I was going to do with it until we were really going.”
RS: What I love about that is that it is a hard part and I didn’t realize it was such a hard part. Like I knew she could do it, so I didn’t even think about it as being a difficult role, which is why it was funny to me when she read it and was like “This is really hard!”
MEW: And I was worried he was trusting me too much, even when we were shooting it--
RS: I never give her notes because it’s always what I want. I’m like, “That was perfect!”
MEW: We usually do one or two takes and I was like, “Are you sure? Are you sure!?”
BSR: “In a month you’re not gonna be sitting in an editing room cursing me, right?”
MEW: Exactly!
Come back tomorrow as we delve a little more into the plot twists of FAULTS and I ask Mary what kind of writing it takes to interest an actress of her caliber... and what she hates seeing in scripts.
Pre-order FAULTS on iTunes or Vimeo.
Part II - Complex characters and roles for women
Part III - Making your first movie
Part IV - Having confidence as a storyteller
FAULTS stars Leland Orser and Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who also happens to be Stearns's wife. If you don't know Mary from her acclaimed performance in Smashed, you need to rectify that immediately, but I'm willing to bet you've seen her in films as diverse as Sky High, Live Free or Die Hard, The Spectacular Now, the Death Proof half of Grindhouse, and Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.
I saw FAULTS at last year's AFI Fest and was a big fan of it. Honestly, it'd be an impressive work even if it wasn't the product of a first-time director. It's a tense movie about a disgraced cult deprogrammer who's hired by desperate parents who want him to deprogram their daughter, who was recently taken in by a cult.
It's been playing the festival circuit for months and is finally coming out in limited release and on VOD this Friday. Recently I sat down with both Riley Stearns and Mary Elizabeth Winstead for a chat that spanned the writing of FAULTS, the issues surrounding good roles for women in film, the challenges of making a first feature, and much more...
Bitter Script Reader: Why FAULTS? Where did this come from?
Riley Stearns: The boring answer is that I’ve always been fascinated by cults—
BSR: If that’s the boring answer, this is going to be very interesting.
RS: What’s funny about that is even as a kid I was fascinated by cults and I don’t think a lot of kids are, but there was something about the idea that you could be like a really intelligent person, very strong minded and you can get sucked into something that somebody else can indoctrinate you into, so the idea of cults was definitely the impetus of that.
There was this COPS episode that I was watching with my dad when I was a kid and there was this deprogramming where the girl called the police and said, “My parents have kidnapped me and are holding me in this room.” The police came and interviewed the parents and were able to discern what was going on. And at the end they said, “Your parents know what’s best for you so you should stay with them. We’re not gonna file a report or anything like that.”
BSR: This made it to air on COPS?!
RS: I feel like this was an episode I saw when I was a kid. I tried to do research on this episode because I knew I was gonna be asked about it after I put it in some director’s statement I did and I can’t find any evidence that this episode actually exists. But in my memory it’s so real and I remember my dad saying, “They knew what was best for her,” like the parents are trying to help her. But as a kid, I realized there’s something really weird about an adult being told what to do.
And I can’t find any evidence that episode was a thing, so I’m trying not to talk about it as much, but as a kid I realized that deprogramming was the craziest, coolest thing and as I got to be an adult, I realized not a lot of people had done a story about deprogramming, at least not the way I wanted to do it. By the time I was ready to write a feature script, that idea was still there.
BSR: Is this your first feature script then?
RS: No. I’ve probably written five or six feature scripts. All of them are shit. FAULTS is the first feature script that I actually think is good. Mary would say otherwise--
Mary Elizabeth Winstead: They’re all good. They get better and better, as they should.
RS: Yeah. My first feature script ended up being 40 pages long. Since I was 18, I’ve written five things other than FAULTS. The other thing about those scripts is they were all copying other people’s styles. I’m glad I wrote them now, but the thing about them I don’t like is that they’re like [me doing] Garden State, mixed with Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. My second one is a Tarantino rip-off. It still wouldn’t make a good movie, but as a writing sample it worked out well. My next was a Scott Pilgrim-style script that I still think is funny, but I don’t think it would make a good movie.
BSR: I see them going in line with Mary’s career there.
MEW: I know! Yeah! [laughs]
RS: It totally is! Those are the scripts that I was reading.
BSR: It kinda seeps in.
RS: Exactly! You write what you know, people say, but in this instance I was just copying what I knew. It led to me finding my voice, which is what I think was important.
BSR: My first feature was a procedural and when I took it into my screenwriting class, they were like, “This is great. I can totally see the LAW & ORDER cast in it!” Yes, yes, you nailed me.
RS: You have to do that though. It’s very rare for a writer to come out and have it but just their voice. And even now I feel like I’m probably copying somebody.
BSR: It’s like a synthesis. The Tarantino thing. He takes a little bit from different people and mixes it into something new. With FAULTS, did you set out deliberately to write something that was low-budget and easy to produce?
RS: Definitely. I wrote it thinking that I would have to Kickstart it, because we did that with THE CUB. We got like $5000 for THE CUB, thinking for the next thing we could get $50,000-$100,000, thinking I could do this on my own, not realizing that had I done this on my own, I wouldn’t have been able to find the motel room. [We wanted to make the motel room] its own thing. It’s very brown, and a lot of production design. If I was doing that on my own it would have been not as good.
BSR: Does working within the limitations of a low-budget kind of define how you’re gonna create the characters and the themes you’re working with, because you’ve gotta have something compelling enough to stay in that room?
RS: I felt like the story itself could sustain being in a small, contained location. I’ve always been good at character. I feel like I’m good at each character has their own voice. A lot of scripts you read, every character sounds like that writer’s version of the character. I feel like one thing FAULTS had was, here’s this weird, eccentric deprogrammer and the subject who he was deprogramming. It wasn’t necessarily budget-driven at all. I feel like even if I had a lot of money, that would have been the same thing that I wrote. But location was the big thing about budget for sure.
BSR: Now Mary, I had a question for you. As Riley’s writing this, I assume you know you’re gonna act in it. Were you feeding him “I’d love to play this kind of part” or “Don’t do this because I hate when I see this in scripts?”
MEW: I don’t know... I was so excited as I was getting the pages of what he was writing but I was also really scared because the character he was writing for me just seemed really, really hard. She’s sort of enigmatic and doesn’t give much away, but also has to be really complex and I was sort of like “I don’t know how to do this.” I loved Leland’s character so much, Ansel, and was like “this character’s sort of flashy and fun!”
BSR: “Can you make him a woman in his twenties?”
RS: The only thing that Mary said that influenced the script in any way was we got to a point where, like 40 pages in… she said, “Ansel’s so cool and eccentric. Can Claire have any of that?” And so the next day I wrote the scene where she does the screaming thing, just because I wanted her to do something weird, and it ended up being one of my favorite parts in the whole movie.
MEW: At that point, Claire was just doing a lot of explaining about what the cult is, so I kind of was poking him a little bit, “give me something.” And I still was scared to play the role even at the end, but then once we were doing it, it was like the most fun I’ve ever had in a role, but I didn’t know what I was going to do with it until we were really going.”
RS: What I love about that is that it is a hard part and I didn’t realize it was such a hard part. Like I knew she could do it, so I didn’t even think about it as being a difficult role, which is why it was funny to me when she read it and was like “This is really hard!”
MEW: And I was worried he was trusting me too much, even when we were shooting it--
RS: I never give her notes because it’s always what I want. I’m like, “That was perfect!”
MEW: We usually do one or two takes and I was like, “Are you sure? Are you sure!?”
BSR: “In a month you’re not gonna be sitting in an editing room cursing me, right?”
MEW: Exactly!
Come back tomorrow as we delve a little more into the plot twists of FAULTS and I ask Mary what kind of writing it takes to interest an actress of her caliber... and what she hates seeing in scripts.
Pre-order FAULTS on iTunes or Vimeo.
Part II - Complex characters and roles for women
Part III - Making your first movie
Part IV - Having confidence as a storyteller
Tuesday, April 15, 2014
An interview with Victoria Aveyard, writer of THE RED QUEEN and ETERNAL
I almost feel like this interview needs to come with one of those "results not typical" disclaimers. Everyone dreams of landing their first sale right out of college, but Victoria Aveyard is the extremely rare person who actually did it. About a year after graduating from USC, her first manuscript (as in, first manuscript she ever completed) RED QUEEN was optioned by Universal Pictures. The novel is set for publication in 2015, the first in a trilogy.
Getting that second sale is almost as hard as the first one for a lot of writers, but less than two months ago, Aveyard crossed that goal off her to-do list with the sale of her spec script ETERNAL to Sony Pictures. The only information released so far about the project is that it will involve a modern re-interpretation of Greek mythology.
Despite working on a number of projects, Victoria was generous enough to answer some questions about what has been a year that every aspiring writer would envy.
Aspiring writers often ask me what I think of getting a degree in screenwriting. I usually tell them that the most important thing is that they keep writing and take advantage of a lot of free resources out there. As a graduate of the USC Screenwriting program, I imagine you might have a different take. What can you tell us about the program and how it specifically benefited you?
One piece of advice I always give (that I got from SC) is read screenplays. And not just the Academy Award winners. Read everything. SCA has a script library I would frequent and if you get a chance, check out Home Alone. Worth every page.
Movies are sort of a family thing and have always been. I probably went to the movies with my parents and my brother at least 15 times a year, every year since I was about 7 and my brother was old enough to sit still. It started when I accidentally saw Jurassic Park when I was 3 and that was it. I clapped when the Rex ate the lawyer and my parents were like "so she's going to be weird." Totally hooked on movies, especially Star Wars, Indiana Jones, basically the pantheon of Lucas and Spielberg.
But actually making movies seemed impossible to a girl from a small town in the middle of nowhere Massachusetts. It wasn't until I watched George Lucas get the AFI Life Achievement that something clicked. There was a big segment about his time at USC and their film school, and I realized that was my in. Film school. I've always loved writing and movies, and finally put 2 and 2 together. I could write movies. Come senior year of high school, I applied to 7 colleges. Only the film schools accepted me, so my parents were sort of Shanghai'd into letting me go. They pushed for NYU, but USC was the first and only school I wanted to go to.
Novel-writing was always in the back of my head during this, but I never thought I could do it. First it was Lord of the Rings that really affected me (still affects me), and I tried my hand at epic fantasy too many times to count. Not the best attempt for a 16 year-old. Back then, I didn't quite realize YA was a whole genre unto itself, even though I was also reading a ton of YA books. I read the Twilight books in high school, and I will still go to bat for the first novel. There is definitely an art to its addiction (mirroring Bella's Edward addiction, blah blah blah), but the other three are more than a little off the rails. I was also very taken by Ella Enchanted. I guess my foray into YA came pretty naturally. Something in my head just clicked. "I'm 22. I'm a good writer. I want another YA to read - I'll just write it myself."
Best part, now I can buy books without feeling guilty! It's my job!
I know RED QUEEN was your first novel, but how much writing had you done before you began working on it?
I
never finished a novel until after college, until I had a few
screenplays
done and realized I might actually be able to complete a book too. My
parents' house is probably filled with scraps from all my abandoned
novels (so is my computer). On the screenwriting side, I left SC with 5
features and 2 pilots under my belt, and the knowledge that I can
actually accomplish something in the writing world. I was also
sifting through the Amazon self-published pile for an internship, and
realized that, at the very least, I could self-publish something better.
How did you get your screenwriting agent?
Was RED QUEEN based at all on any screenplay ideas you were developing? I understand it was your first novel, so what made you develop it as a book rather than a screenplay?
RED QUEEN was definitely a book from the very beginning. I pitched it as a book and always imagined it as a book, maybe with a movie one day. I do think that my screenwriting background made it a lot more accessible to the film industry, which is why it made a splash when it first made the rounds. It's very visual, quick, and has a structure people understand, which definitely helps a lot.
Take us through the journey of RED QUEEN manuscript from the time you finished it to it being optioned by Universal.
After pitching and getting the thumbs up to work on the manuscript, I knew I had a choice. I could stay in LA and go the assistant route to support myself, or move home to Massachusetts and really power through the novel. I'd make a pretty terrible assistant - I'm forgetful, I have a temper, and I would definitely snap at someone and burn bridges - and knew the assistant life would be too much for me personally to handle. People who can do that and still write are pretty much gods in my eyes.
So I moved back home, novel outline in hand, and finished the first draft in January 2013. That was a scary month. Benderspink passed my manuscript on to Pouya Shahbazian at New Leaf, who passed it to his co-worker Suzie. I first realized things might be good when Suzie followed me on Twitter and got my hopes up. And more than a year later, she has never let me down. After a revision, Suzie signed me to New Leaf. After another revision, we went on submission to publishers. We lost about 40k words off the manuscript at this point. Even with screenwriting training, I tend to write long.
So timeline: book pitched in May 2012, officially started in June, sold to Harper in April 2013, Universal in May 2013. Kind of a wild ride.
One thing that I and a number of other screenwriting personality types have been pushing for is greater clarity in what the reported deals actually mean. We're in a business where script options are reported as sales and that gives a very distorted picture of what a writer actually makes.
For example, if RED QUEEN was a spec script and Universal had bought it for six figures, what that really means is that the writer usually pockets only 10% of that until the film goes into production. So my question is, how does that work with book options? Is it similar or does the writer of the underlying material see more payment up front?
I definitely see what I define as a great deal of money up front for the Universal option, but it's against a lot more for a purchase. If we go through the full options (18 months, plus another 18 if Universal wants), I get a bit more than 10% of the total purchase. I don't have any experience with the screenwriting option side (ETERNAL was an outright sale), so I don't know how the book option money compares to screenplay option. I'm sort of waiting for the shoe to drop because everything and everyone has been great so far.
Are you writing the screenplay for RED QUEEN? If so, have there been any interesting challenges in adapting your own work? What are some things that work well in one medium that have to be altered for the other? And is the screenplay for RQ impacting where you're taking the novel storyline in the remaining installments of the trilogy?
I'm actually not writing the RED QUEEN screenplay. Gennifer Hutchison, an amazing writer who will probably do it way more justice than me, is taking the book to screen. A few people think this might be a touchy subject because I'm a screenwriter too, but it's honestly not. Books and film are two very different mediums and I'm probably too close to RQ at this point to do what film requires. I couldn't cut characters or scenes, and we'd end up with a 200 page screenplay. Plus Genn's phenomenal. This wasn't a factor when writers were interviewed, but I'm personally very happy a female writer is taking the reins. I feel like a fan myself and can't wait to see what she does!
So about a year after the option, where does RED QUEEN stand as a Universal project?
Well, the manuscript that went out last April is definitely not the final product. There have been a few rewrites since then, and copy edits were finished only a few weeks ago. But now that the first book is pretty much locked in terms of content, the engine can start moving.
I'm sure there are plenty of envious aspiring writers wishing they could have your luck in selling your first manuscript. Most writers aren't that good on their first try, so I'm guessing your writing background gave you an edge. So it's with that in mind that I ask: what was your first screenplay about and how likely are you to parade that around as a writing sample?
Oh man. Full disclosure, I still love that script. It will probably never see the light of day, but I love it. It's exactly my style and taste and tone, and maybe one day...then again maybe not. It's called RAW HIDE and it's a zombie western. Logline: In 1876, Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane attempt to outrun an undead plague overtaking the Old West. My first time out of the barn and I got to have a zombie/cowboys/Native American battle in a white-out blizzard in downtown Deadwood. My class probably thought I was nuts.
Looking back, can you see a turning point in your growth as a writer? How many scripts did it take for you to figure this out?
I've sort of always been on the same trajectory in terms of style and genre (I like big worlds, big characters, and big explosions), and I think I had a lot of little turns instead of one big hard right. Revising my first screenplay, learning to FINISH, learning to pitch, all affected my writing immensely. At first I kind of resisted the sort of tenets of screenwriting, because I thought myself a sort of touchy-feely, make my own rules kind of writer, but through college I learned how to take what I was learning and absorb it to the point where I wasn't thinking about it anymore. The work still came out with my flow, but it was more refined, more structured. I still absolutely hate outlining but senior year I finally got good at it and it shows a LOT. I think I finally hit my stride with my second TV pilot, the one that got me in the door at Benderspink. That script was where I really showed my taste and my tone, but filtered into something accessible.
Let's talk about ETERNAL, which Sony acquired in February for an undisclosed amount. Was this a project you developed after RED QUEEN or is it a script you'd been working on for a while?
ETERNAL came about after RED QUEEN, after a summer of back and forth with Benderspink trying to find a project idea we all loved. I remember sending a bunch of ideas, knowing ETERNAL was my favorite, and then they came back with "we love ETERNAL." It was really exciting to get back into screenplays, but also a bit rough. I remember I forgot sluglines for the first five pages. I was like a baby learning to walk again, but it went a lot faster this time.
Was this the first project you had developed with your reps? Did your team play any role in guiding you through the process or deciding what to write?
Yep, this is our first project together. The team was great to narrow down my ideas, then get my outline in shape, and then the screenplay itself. I'm not really good on the phone, but somehow our phone meetings are working out much better than my usual phone panics do. Benderspink and Pouya from New Leaf were also awesome at getting me on the right generals, in the right places. I think I went on about twenty meetings last fall, and each one was pretty rocking. Really great way to ease me back into the film industry.
How many drafts of ETERNAL did you go through before your reps felt it was ready to send out? What was that process like?
ETERNAL went through three revisions total, so technically three drafts? The last one was pretty minor. The entire thing took about 3 months once were out of the outlining stage, from September to December 2013. It was really great timing, since I was between edits on RED QUEEN, and just gearing up on the second book. I definitely needed to write a different story in between books, or else I'd be sick to death of the RQ world.
Because ETERNAL concerns the Greek gods, kind of a big deal to my 10 year-old dorky self, it was a real passion project and I had a ton of fun working on it. Not to say it was easy, but it was always fun. Any time you can throw a minotaur into a ferris wheel, I suggest you do it. When everyone came back from Christmas break, the boys went to work getting ETERNAL out there, and did a tremendous job. I got the call that we sold as I was leaving to get my author photos done, so I had to focus on not smiling too much and looking like a lunatic.
So what's on your writing to-do list currently? And have you already started thinking about what your next project will be?
Currently, I'm all about book 2 in the RED QUEEN series, and trying to get that done for hopefully next month. I've got another industry idea on the back burner that I really, really love and hope to develop as soon as I can. And of course, I currently live my life for Game of Thrones and any news of George RR Martin's next release date.
If you could go back in time and give advice to yourself just before you started writing your first screenplay, what would be the most important things you'd want your past self to know?
Know your limits. Your instinct will be to throw yourself at everything, and that's just not right for you. Listen to all the advice, but follow only what applies to who you are and what path you want to take. Stick to your guns when you know you're right. Admit when you aren't (still working on that). Read A Song of Ice and Fire slowly. Invest in Apple. You made the right choice moving to California. Keep at it.
--------
Getting that second sale is almost as hard as the first one for a lot of writers, but less than two months ago, Aveyard crossed that goal off her to-do list with the sale of her spec script ETERNAL to Sony Pictures. The only information released so far about the project is that it will involve a modern re-interpretation of Greek mythology.
Despite working on a number of projects, Victoria was generous enough to answer some questions about what has been a year that every aspiring writer would envy.
Aspiring writers often ask me what I think of getting a degree in screenwriting. I usually tell them that the most important thing is that they keep writing and take advantage of a lot of free resources out there. As a graduate of the USC Screenwriting program, I imagine you might have a different take. What can you tell us about the program and how it specifically benefited you?
Keep writing and take advantage of your resources
definitely still applies within SC, but the writing is more guided and
the resources are arguably better/cost tuition. I'm a big cheerleader
for SCA (School of Cinematic Arts) and the Writing Program especially.
It turned me, a kid from the middle of nowhere, into an actual
professional screenwriter, which is crazy. I think without the prospect
of USC, I would've never been brave enough or equipped enough to make it
in the industry. It was sort of like training wheels for a Hollywood
career, if the wheels were made of gold and had a football team. I got a
crash course in pretty much everything, from pitching to structure to
film business, which gave me the tools to make my own career. And I
cannot say enough about the professors. I seriously can't choose a
favorite because I learned something incredibly valuable from every
single one.
You don't come out knowing everything, but you definitely
have a leg-up if you've done the work and used what SC gave you. Plus,
SC isn't just a film school. You get the benefit of a huge
university along with a specialized school. It's the best of both
worlds. I think a lot of people think writing all day, every day, in
every spare moment is the way to succeed. I don't agree. At least for
me, that results in dead writing. I'm much better when I have time for
real life. I definitely learned that balancing act at SC.
One piece of advice I always give (that I got from SC) is read screenplays. And not just the Academy Award winners. Read everything. SCA has a script library I would frequent and if you get a chance, check out Home Alone. Worth every page.
Since you ended up at USC, I assume
you had an interest in film from the start. How far back does your
interest in screenwriting go and when did you become interested in
writing Young Adult fiction? Are you a particular fan of that genre?
Movies are sort of a family thing and have always been. I probably went to the movies with my parents and my brother at least 15 times a year, every year since I was about 7 and my brother was old enough to sit still. It started when I accidentally saw Jurassic Park when I was 3 and that was it. I clapped when the Rex ate the lawyer and my parents were like "so she's going to be weird." Totally hooked on movies, especially Star Wars, Indiana Jones, basically the pantheon of Lucas and Spielberg.
But actually making movies seemed impossible to a girl from a small town in the middle of nowhere Massachusetts. It wasn't until I watched George Lucas get the AFI Life Achievement that something clicked. There was a big segment about his time at USC and their film school, and I realized that was my in. Film school. I've always loved writing and movies, and finally put 2 and 2 together. I could write movies. Come senior year of high school, I applied to 7 colleges. Only the film schools accepted me, so my parents were sort of Shanghai'd into letting me go. They pushed for NYU, but USC was the first and only school I wanted to go to.
Novel-writing was always in the back of my head during this, but I never thought I could do it. First it was Lord of the Rings that really affected me (still affects me), and I tried my hand at epic fantasy too many times to count. Not the best attempt for a 16 year-old. Back then, I didn't quite realize YA was a whole genre unto itself, even though I was also reading a ton of YA books. I read the Twilight books in high school, and I will still go to bat for the first novel. There is definitely an art to its addiction (mirroring Bella's Edward addiction, blah blah blah), but the other three are more than a little off the rails. I was also very taken by Ella Enchanted. I guess my foray into YA came pretty naturally. Something in my head just clicked. "I'm 22. I'm a good writer. I want another YA to read - I'll just write it myself."
Best part, now I can buy books without feeling guilty! It's my job!
I know RED QUEEN was your first novel, but how much writing had you done before you began working on it?
How did you get your screenwriting agent?
I
actually don't have a screenwriting agent, but I got repped off of one
of those awesome USC resources: at the end of senior year, all the
Writing grads participate in First Pitch. Basically, speed dating, but
you're pitching movies for 10 minutes to about 10 execs, agents,
managers, etc. over the course of a night. It was probably the most
nervous I've ever been and makes any meeting seem like cake in
comparison. I actually didn't meet with Benderspink on the night of, but
they emailed everyone they missed for portfolios. They liked a pilot I
wrote and brought me in for a general. I pitched a few more tv and
feature ideas, and then kind of said 'fuck it' to myself and told them I
wanted to write an awesome YA novel. I didn't have much more than a
kernel of an idea, but they wanted me to run with it. Now I'm managed by
Benderspink and Suzie Townsend is my publishing agent.
Was RED QUEEN based at all on any screenplay ideas you were developing? I understand it was your first novel, so what made you develop it as a book rather than a screenplay?
RED QUEEN was definitely a book from the very beginning. I pitched it as a book and always imagined it as a book, maybe with a movie one day. I do think that my screenwriting background made it a lot more accessible to the film industry, which is why it made a splash when it first made the rounds. It's very visual, quick, and has a structure people understand, which definitely helps a lot.
Because I'd written screenplays before, I knew their
limitations. I knew, for a newbie, to create the world I wanted with the
depth I wanted, I had to go the book route, and I'm very glad I did. I
don't think RED QUEEN would've gone anywhere as a standalone script,
simply because the novel allowed me to really sink into the world and
characters. A script would've only scratched the surface back then.
Take us through the journey of RED QUEEN manuscript from the time you finished it to it being optioned by Universal.
After pitching and getting the thumbs up to work on the manuscript, I knew I had a choice. I could stay in LA and go the assistant route to support myself, or move home to Massachusetts and really power through the novel. I'd make a pretty terrible assistant - I'm forgetful, I have a temper, and I would definitely snap at someone and burn bridges - and knew the assistant life would be too much for me personally to handle. People who can do that and still write are pretty much gods in my eyes.
So I moved back home, novel outline in hand, and finished the first draft in January 2013. That was a scary month. Benderspink passed my manuscript on to Pouya Shahbazian at New Leaf, who passed it to his co-worker Suzie. I first realized things might be good when Suzie followed me on Twitter and got my hopes up. And more than a year later, she has never let me down. After a revision, Suzie signed me to New Leaf. After another revision, we went on submission to publishers. We lost about 40k words off the manuscript at this point. Even with screenwriting training, I tend to write long.
We were on submission for
two weeks before we got an offer from HarperCollins, and two weeks after
that, an option from Universal. Because I was still in Mass for all
this, there were a lot of harried phone calls. I was driving kids home
from school for cash at that point, and took a lot of phone calls with
shushed kids in the back seat.
So timeline: book pitched in May 2012, officially started in June, sold to Harper in April 2013, Universal in May 2013. Kind of a wild ride.
One thing that I and a number of other screenwriting personality types have been pushing for is greater clarity in what the reported deals actually mean. We're in a business where script options are reported as sales and that gives a very distorted picture of what a writer actually makes.
For example, if RED QUEEN was a spec script and Universal had bought it for six figures, what that really means is that the writer usually pockets only 10% of that until the film goes into production. So my question is, how does that work with book options? Is it similar or does the writer of the underlying material see more payment up front?
I definitely see what I define as a great deal of money up front for the Universal option, but it's against a lot more for a purchase. If we go through the full options (18 months, plus another 18 if Universal wants), I get a bit more than 10% of the total purchase. I don't have any experience with the screenwriting option side (ETERNAL was an outright sale), so I don't know how the book option money compares to screenplay option. I'm sort of waiting for the shoe to drop because everything and everyone has been great so far.
Are you writing the screenplay for RED QUEEN? If so, have there been any interesting challenges in adapting your own work? What are some things that work well in one medium that have to be altered for the other? And is the screenplay for RQ impacting where you're taking the novel storyline in the remaining installments of the trilogy?
I'm actually not writing the RED QUEEN screenplay. Gennifer Hutchison, an amazing writer who will probably do it way more justice than me, is taking the book to screen. A few people think this might be a touchy subject because I'm a screenwriter too, but it's honestly not. Books and film are two very different mediums and I'm probably too close to RQ at this point to do what film requires. I couldn't cut characters or scenes, and we'd end up with a 200 page screenplay. Plus Genn's phenomenal. This wasn't a factor when writers were interviewed, but I'm personally very happy a female writer is taking the reins. I feel like a fan myself and can't wait to see what she does!
So about a year after the option, where does RED QUEEN stand as a Universal project?
Well, the manuscript that went out last April is definitely not the final product. There have been a few rewrites since then, and copy edits were finished only a few weeks ago. But now that the first book is pretty much locked in terms of content, the engine can start moving.
I'm sure there are plenty of envious aspiring writers wishing they could have your luck in selling your first manuscript. Most writers aren't that good on their first try, so I'm guessing your writing background gave you an edge. So it's with that in mind that I ask: what was your first screenplay about and how likely are you to parade that around as a writing sample?
Oh man. Full disclosure, I still love that script. It will probably never see the light of day, but I love it. It's exactly my style and taste and tone, and maybe one day...then again maybe not. It's called RAW HIDE and it's a zombie western. Logline: In 1876, Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane attempt to outrun an undead plague overtaking the Old West. My first time out of the barn and I got to have a zombie/cowboys/Native American battle in a white-out blizzard in downtown Deadwood. My class probably thought I was nuts.
Looking back, can you see a turning point in your growth as a writer? How many scripts did it take for you to figure this out?
I've sort of always been on the same trajectory in terms of style and genre (I like big worlds, big characters, and big explosions), and I think I had a lot of little turns instead of one big hard right. Revising my first screenplay, learning to FINISH, learning to pitch, all affected my writing immensely. At first I kind of resisted the sort of tenets of screenwriting, because I thought myself a sort of touchy-feely, make my own rules kind of writer, but through college I learned how to take what I was learning and absorb it to the point where I wasn't thinking about it anymore. The work still came out with my flow, but it was more refined, more structured. I still absolutely hate outlining but senior year I finally got good at it and it shows a LOT. I think I finally hit my stride with my second TV pilot, the one that got me in the door at Benderspink. That script was where I really showed my taste and my tone, but filtered into something accessible.
Let's talk about ETERNAL, which Sony acquired in February for an undisclosed amount. Was this a project you developed after RED QUEEN or is it a script you'd been working on for a while?
ETERNAL came about after RED QUEEN, after a summer of back and forth with Benderspink trying to find a project idea we all loved. I remember sending a bunch of ideas, knowing ETERNAL was my favorite, and then they came back with "we love ETERNAL." It was really exciting to get back into screenplays, but also a bit rough. I remember I forgot sluglines for the first five pages. I was like a baby learning to walk again, but it went a lot faster this time.
Was this the first project you had developed with your reps? Did your team play any role in guiding you through the process or deciding what to write?
Yep, this is our first project together. The team was great to narrow down my ideas, then get my outline in shape, and then the screenplay itself. I'm not really good on the phone, but somehow our phone meetings are working out much better than my usual phone panics do. Benderspink and Pouya from New Leaf were also awesome at getting me on the right generals, in the right places. I think I went on about twenty meetings last fall, and each one was pretty rocking. Really great way to ease me back into the film industry.
How many drafts of ETERNAL did you go through before your reps felt it was ready to send out? What was that process like?
ETERNAL went through three revisions total, so technically three drafts? The last one was pretty minor. The entire thing took about 3 months once were out of the outlining stage, from September to December 2013. It was really great timing, since I was between edits on RED QUEEN, and just gearing up on the second book. I definitely needed to write a different story in between books, or else I'd be sick to death of the RQ world.
Because ETERNAL concerns the Greek gods, kind of a big deal to my 10 year-old dorky self, it was a real passion project and I had a ton of fun working on it. Not to say it was easy, but it was always fun. Any time you can throw a minotaur into a ferris wheel, I suggest you do it. When everyone came back from Christmas break, the boys went to work getting ETERNAL out there, and did a tremendous job. I got the call that we sold as I was leaving to get my author photos done, so I had to focus on not smiling too much and looking like a lunatic.
So what's on your writing to-do list currently? And have you already started thinking about what your next project will be?
Currently, I'm all about book 2 in the RED QUEEN series, and trying to get that done for hopefully next month. I've got another industry idea on the back burner that I really, really love and hope to develop as soon as I can. And of course, I currently live my life for Game of Thrones and any news of George RR Martin's next release date.
If you could go back in time and give advice to yourself just before you started writing your first screenplay, what would be the most important things you'd want your past self to know?
Know your limits. Your instinct will be to throw yourself at everything, and that's just not right for you. Listen to all the advice, but follow only what applies to who you are and what path you want to take. Stick to your guns when you know you're right. Admit when you aren't (still working on that). Read A Song of Ice and Fire slowly. Invest in Apple. You made the right choice moving to California. Keep at it.
--------
You can find Victoria Aveyard on Twitter at @VictoriaAveyard.
Thursday, November 21, 2013
An interview with a Black List 3.0 success story - ALICE OF OZ's Matt Bolish
It's been about six months since my friend Matt Bolish was signed as a client to Resolution after his spec ALICE OF OZ got some traction on the Black List website. The script is set years after the first visit over the rainbow, as a now-adult Dorothy Gale is pulled back to Oz to help her friends fight an invasion from another world - Wonderland.
Considering Matt just recently visited L.A. to do the typical "new writer" tour of meeting producers and development executives, this seemed like a good time to check in with him and discuss his experience with the Black List and what it's like to be the new writer taking meetings all over town.
So how did you come up with the idea for ALICE OF OZ?
Well, a lot of people have made comparisons of the two stories. Both Dorothy and Alice are young girls, sucked into fantasy worlds that are populated by magic and incredible creatures, both are on a quest to get home. But there are some striking differences. Dorothy arrives, drops a house on a witch, and is immediately honored as a hero. Along the way to the Emerald City she meets this amazing cast of characters that treats her like an adult, who look for her for guidance – every ten year old’s dream!
Then there’s Alice; she’s bored and desperate for some adventure, so she follows the Rabbit down his hole. While it’s all fun and games at first, she’s frequently on the defensive. The people of Wonderland call her stupid and foolish, even a monster, they constantly make and remake the rules. Alice’s quest is as more about escaping Wonderland then getting back to a worried family waiting in a land far, far away.
It was fun to consider how those different experiences would have made two VERY different women and how those two women would have in turn made two starkly different worlds.
What led you to put ALICE OF OZ up on the Black List website?
I’d been aware of THE Black List for years; I remember getting a hold of it back in the day and treating it like a “to-do” list; here were dozens of scripts that I had to get my hands on to read, study, and pick apart. Best way to spend a weekend…
Fast forward a few years and a friend and fellow writer tipped me off to the new venture, blacklist.com. We were pretty skeptical at first; there are lots of services out there that are happy to take you money for notes, promising connections or introductions to industry insiders if your work passes muster. But then I dug into it and realized that this was more then just a script reading service; it was a community. Not in the sense of a facebook or instagram, but a dynamic and exciting place for THE WORK to live and breathe. I figured that it was worthwhile to give it a shot and I couldn’t be happier with the results.
One of the most daunting things a writer can do is pass their work to someone else; it can be terrifying. But in order to have a life beyond your close circle of friends you have to get your work out into the world. Blacklist.com allowed me to solicit opinions from people in the business who WANTED to be there, who were looking for stories. No long email “putting it in context,” no coffee meeting where you hang onto the script like grim death, unsure if you really should slide it over the table to your girlfriend, roommate, or that guy from down the hall.
Having a place like blacklist.com allows writers to get out of their comfort zone and get reasoned, considered feedback while at the same time providing executives, representatives, and producers tools to find stories that they are interested in – seems like a win/win.
When did you start getting reactions? What was that like?
I knew from the moment I started hosting on the site that I was going to pay for a read. It seemed like the best way to take advantage of what the system had to offer and it also forced me to put myself out there. One of the best components of the site is the “do no harm” rule – no one would see the pro-review if I didn’t want them to. If it went bad, well, I’d go back to the drawing board. If it went well, making those notes and scores public would likely drive interest in the script. I got lucky and landed some very solid numbers and notes.
But make no mistake, it took a little bit of time for all of that to come together. So if I was asked to give some advice to people who are exploring site as an option I’d lead with “be patient.” Even after I made the review public it took some time for ALICE to get traction but when it did things started to happen pretty quickly.
The first messages I got were a mix bag of “pats on the back” and requests for more material ("That’s great…what else do you have?"). I heard from producers, directors, agents, managers, creative executives and it was a little overwhelming at first. I mean, when you are plugging away at a script you get the impression that it’s a one way street. An endless cycle of sending out specs and going after people to see if they had a chance to read them. But this was the other way, people were drawn to the work for one reason or another, took a look at it, and wanted to touch base. I’ll be honest, I was nervous…but then it got to be fun.
As a direct result of those conversations I signed with Resolution and we’ve been working together for six months now.
Since you were courted by so many people, what advice would you give to other writers who have to decide whether or not to take someone on as their rep?
Number one, talk to everyone, no matter how big or small or whatever. I had to learn very quickly that while writing may be a solitary pursuit – you, a computer, and a pot of coffee – finding the right person or people to work with you to develop a career is a team sport. You need to ask questions, you need to get a sense of the sorts of folks they work with, the stories they like or like to tell, you need to get a sense of how hands off or hands on a possible rep might be.
Number two, meet them. Phone calls are key, skype calls are cool, but I personally don’t think you get the measure of a person (nor they of you) unless you are sitting across from them. This might be easier said then done but this is a person who you hope to have a long professional relationship with…you should be able to pick them out of a line up. I think that also says something about a possible rep as well – they should want the same thing.
Since you don't live in LA, has that complicated capitalizing on the attention your spec has gotten?
Yeah, I currently live in New York which made things like sitting down with possible representatives a little challenging. I was lucky in that work, friends, and family on the west coast make trips back to LA a necessity. I’ve found that it’s important to coordinate trips back west for meetings – a week of hitting the road, dropping in, saying “hi,” and meeting as many people as possible. It’s so much better if you can actually be in the same room at least for those initial meetings. By virtue of geography I’ve got to rely on phone calls and emails for following up…but I’m planning another trip very soon!
Are you comfortable going into these general meetings? Any advice for other writers who have yet to experience that?
Yeah, I tend to feel pretty good about going into a meeting. When it comes down to it, you are there because someone saw something they liked in your work and wanted to meet you. It’s easy to confuse them with job interviews but (at least in my experience) it’s best to go in ready for a conversation, not a review of credentials. It’s easy to say trite things like “relax, take it easy,” but I really do think that’s key.
The way I prep for a meeting is making sure I know about who I’m meeting with – what does this person like, what does this company produce, what are they working on – that sort of stuff. Another thing that might be easy to take for granted is your own work…be prepared to talk about your script or scripts, and if it makes sense at the meeting be ready to talk about what you are doing right now. For me, this goes a long way towards making me feel comfortable in the room.
I’ve had the chance to be on the other side of the table (albeit in a different context), and have people pitch me their ideas, stories, or projects. I found the ones that I was most interested in were ones where I was able to ask questions, engaging with the creator and the through them, the work. That means making sure that your meeting doesn’t turn into a monologue. Make sure you give the person you’re sitting down with the time to respond, to ask questions, to tell a few of their own stories…and before you know it you’ve filled an hour or so.
You mentioned earlier that you blocked off a week to pop into town for meetings. Is that a reasonable way to work?
I think that it makes sense as a way to get started. Thanks to the web and things like Face Time and Skype it’s no longer an unbreakable rule that a writer must live in LA county to crack inside. But I’d be lying if I said there wasn’t a pull towards the west coast. I’m biased though, I love LA…
So what's next?
I’m trying to wrap up my next spec script now while at the same time playing with ideas for story I’ll work on after.
Considering Matt just recently visited L.A. to do the typical "new writer" tour of meeting producers and development executives, this seemed like a good time to check in with him and discuss his experience with the Black List and what it's like to be the new writer taking meetings all over town.
So how did you come up with the idea for ALICE OF OZ?
Well, a lot of people have made comparisons of the two stories. Both Dorothy and Alice are young girls, sucked into fantasy worlds that are populated by magic and incredible creatures, both are on a quest to get home. But there are some striking differences. Dorothy arrives, drops a house on a witch, and is immediately honored as a hero. Along the way to the Emerald City she meets this amazing cast of characters that treats her like an adult, who look for her for guidance – every ten year old’s dream!
Then there’s Alice; she’s bored and desperate for some adventure, so she follows the Rabbit down his hole. While it’s all fun and games at first, she’s frequently on the defensive. The people of Wonderland call her stupid and foolish, even a monster, they constantly make and remake the rules. Alice’s quest is as more about escaping Wonderland then getting back to a worried family waiting in a land far, far away.
It was fun to consider how those different experiences would have made two VERY different women and how those two women would have in turn made two starkly different worlds.
What led you to put ALICE OF OZ up on the Black List website?
I’d been aware of THE Black List for years; I remember getting a hold of it back in the day and treating it like a “to-do” list; here were dozens of scripts that I had to get my hands on to read, study, and pick apart. Best way to spend a weekend…
Fast forward a few years and a friend and fellow writer tipped me off to the new venture, blacklist.com. We were pretty skeptical at first; there are lots of services out there that are happy to take you money for notes, promising connections or introductions to industry insiders if your work passes muster. But then I dug into it and realized that this was more then just a script reading service; it was a community. Not in the sense of a facebook or instagram, but a dynamic and exciting place for THE WORK to live and breathe. I figured that it was worthwhile to give it a shot and I couldn’t be happier with the results.
One of the most daunting things a writer can do is pass their work to someone else; it can be terrifying. But in order to have a life beyond your close circle of friends you have to get your work out into the world. Blacklist.com allowed me to solicit opinions from people in the business who WANTED to be there, who were looking for stories. No long email “putting it in context,” no coffee meeting where you hang onto the script like grim death, unsure if you really should slide it over the table to your girlfriend, roommate, or that guy from down the hall.
Having a place like blacklist.com allows writers to get out of their comfort zone and get reasoned, considered feedback while at the same time providing executives, representatives, and producers tools to find stories that they are interested in – seems like a win/win.
When did you start getting reactions? What was that like?
I knew from the moment I started hosting on the site that I was going to pay for a read. It seemed like the best way to take advantage of what the system had to offer and it also forced me to put myself out there. One of the best components of the site is the “do no harm” rule – no one would see the pro-review if I didn’t want them to. If it went bad, well, I’d go back to the drawing board. If it went well, making those notes and scores public would likely drive interest in the script. I got lucky and landed some very solid numbers and notes.
But make no mistake, it took a little bit of time for all of that to come together. So if I was asked to give some advice to people who are exploring site as an option I’d lead with “be patient.” Even after I made the review public it took some time for ALICE to get traction but when it did things started to happen pretty quickly.
The first messages I got were a mix bag of “pats on the back” and requests for more material ("That’s great…what else do you have?"). I heard from producers, directors, agents, managers, creative executives and it was a little overwhelming at first. I mean, when you are plugging away at a script you get the impression that it’s a one way street. An endless cycle of sending out specs and going after people to see if they had a chance to read them. But this was the other way, people were drawn to the work for one reason or another, took a look at it, and wanted to touch base. I’ll be honest, I was nervous…but then it got to be fun.
As a direct result of those conversations I signed with Resolution and we’ve been working together for six months now.
Since you were courted by so many people, what advice would you give to other writers who have to decide whether or not to take someone on as their rep?
Number one, talk to everyone, no matter how big or small or whatever. I had to learn very quickly that while writing may be a solitary pursuit – you, a computer, and a pot of coffee – finding the right person or people to work with you to develop a career is a team sport. You need to ask questions, you need to get a sense of the sorts of folks they work with, the stories they like or like to tell, you need to get a sense of how hands off or hands on a possible rep might be.
Number two, meet them. Phone calls are key, skype calls are cool, but I personally don’t think you get the measure of a person (nor they of you) unless you are sitting across from them. This might be easier said then done but this is a person who you hope to have a long professional relationship with…you should be able to pick them out of a line up. I think that also says something about a possible rep as well – they should want the same thing.
Since you don't live in LA, has that complicated capitalizing on the attention your spec has gotten?
Yeah, I currently live in New York which made things like sitting down with possible representatives a little challenging. I was lucky in that work, friends, and family on the west coast make trips back to LA a necessity. I’ve found that it’s important to coordinate trips back west for meetings – a week of hitting the road, dropping in, saying “hi,” and meeting as many people as possible. It’s so much better if you can actually be in the same room at least for those initial meetings. By virtue of geography I’ve got to rely on phone calls and emails for following up…but I’m planning another trip very soon!
Are you comfortable going into these general meetings? Any advice for other writers who have yet to experience that?
Yeah, I tend to feel pretty good about going into a meeting. When it comes down to it, you are there because someone saw something they liked in your work and wanted to meet you. It’s easy to confuse them with job interviews but (at least in my experience) it’s best to go in ready for a conversation, not a review of credentials. It’s easy to say trite things like “relax, take it easy,” but I really do think that’s key.
The way I prep for a meeting is making sure I know about who I’m meeting with – what does this person like, what does this company produce, what are they working on – that sort of stuff. Another thing that might be easy to take for granted is your own work…be prepared to talk about your script or scripts, and if it makes sense at the meeting be ready to talk about what you are doing right now. For me, this goes a long way towards making me feel comfortable in the room.
I’ve had the chance to be on the other side of the table (albeit in a different context), and have people pitch me their ideas, stories, or projects. I found the ones that I was most interested in were ones where I was able to ask questions, engaging with the creator and the through them, the work. That means making sure that your meeting doesn’t turn into a monologue. Make sure you give the person you’re sitting down with the time to respond, to ask questions, to tell a few of their own stories…and before you know it you’ve filled an hour or so.
You mentioned earlier that you blocked off a week to pop into town for meetings. Is that a reasonable way to work?
I think that it makes sense as a way to get started. Thanks to the web and things like Face Time and Skype it’s no longer an unbreakable rule that a writer must live in LA county to crack inside. But I’d be lying if I said there wasn’t a pull towards the west coast. I’m biased though, I love LA…
So what's next?
I’m trying to wrap up my next spec script now while at the same time playing with ideas for story I’ll work on after.
Friday, October 25, 2013
Interview with film and TV writer Jeffrey Lieber - Part 6: The Bitter Questions
Parts 1 and 2 - How did you get an agent? and First sales and going into TV.
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Our week-long interview with Jeff Lieber (Lost, Miami Medical, Tuck Everlasting, Crash and Burn) concludes as Jeff takes his turn in the hot seat with "The Bitter Questions." Learn what Jeff considers his proudest and his most self-indulgent moments in writing, among others.
And if you're curious about how other writers handled the same questions, check out this handy playlist that houses all of those segments.
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Our week-long interview with Jeff Lieber (Lost, Miami Medical, Tuck Everlasting, Crash and Burn) concludes as Jeff takes his turn in the hot seat with "The Bitter Questions." Learn what Jeff considers his proudest and his most self-indulgent moments in writing, among others.
And if you're curious about how other writers handled the same questions, check out this handy playlist that houses all of those segments.
Thursday, October 24, 2013
Interview with film and TV writer Jeffrey Lieber - Part 5: Cable TV vs. Network TV
Parts 1 and 2 - How did you get an agent? and First sales and going into TV.
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Our talk with writer Jeff Lieber (Lost, Miami Medical, Tuck Everlasting) continues. In this segment, Jeff talks the difference between developing a show for network TV vs. cable networks. He also discuses how he goes about developing a show that draws on real life events and people versus shows with more fantastical elements.
Find Jeff on Twitter at @JeffLieber.
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Our talk with writer Jeff Lieber (Lost, Miami Medical, Tuck Everlasting) continues. In this segment, Jeff talks the difference between developing a show for network TV vs. cable networks. He also discuses how he goes about developing a show that draws on real life events and people versus shows with more fantastical elements.
Find Jeff on Twitter at @JeffLieber.
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Wednesday, October 23, 2013
Interview with film and TV writer Jeffrey Lieber - Part 4: The process of developing a show
Parts 1 and 2 - How did you get an agent? and First sales and going into TV.
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
In this segment, Jeff Lieber discusses the process of pitching a TV series and what he feels goes into making a successful pilot. By way of explanation, he tells us a little about his new series "Crash and Burn," coming soon to FX.
Follow Jeff on Twitter
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
In this segment, Jeff Lieber discusses the process of pitching a TV series and what he feels goes into making a successful pilot. By way of explanation, he tells us a little about his new series "Crash and Burn," coming soon to FX.
Follow Jeff on Twitter
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Tuesday, October 22, 2013
Interview with film and TV writer Jeffrey Lieber - Part 3: The early genesis of Lost
Parts 1 and 2 - How did you get an agent? and First sales and going into TV.
If you look up Jeff Lieber's credits, it will probably leap out at you that he's credited as a co-creator of Lost. However, not only did Jeff never write for the series, he never worked with fellow co-creators J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof. So what was Jeff's role in the genesis of the series? What did his version of the Lost pilot contain? Click on the video for the answers.
Find Jeff on Twitter.
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
If you look up Jeff Lieber's credits, it will probably leap out at you that he's credited as a co-creator of Lost. However, not only did Jeff never write for the series, he never worked with fellow co-creators J.J. Abrams and Damon Lindelof. So what was Jeff's role in the genesis of the series? What did his version of the Lost pilot contain? Click on the video for the answers.
Find Jeff on Twitter.
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Monday, October 21, 2013
Interview with film and TV writer Jeffrey Lieber - Part 1 & 2: "How did you get an agent?"
This week, it is my honor to be interviewing Jeffrey Lieber, a writer who's been very active in both film and television. To some of you, his name might be most familiar as a co-creator of Lost. Others of you might know him as the writer of the film adaptation of Tuck Everlasting. For many years now, Jeff has been a working TV writer. In addition to creating Miami Medical, he's also worked on The Whole Truth, Chase, Pan Am and Necessary Roughness. His latest project is an FX drama called Crash and Burn, which is centered on the lives of stuntmen in the pre-CGI era of filmmaking.
Jeff is also known around the blogsphere for his list of 200 "Showrunner Rules," which are handily archived here thanks to fellow blog warrior Scott Myers of Go Into The Story.
And don't forget to follow Jeff on Twitter.
In our first segment, I dive right in and ask Jeff how he got his first agent.
In our second segment, Jeff discusses his first script sale, his first produced film, and his shift from features into television.
Come back every day this week for the remaining parts of the interview!
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Jeff is also known around the blogsphere for his list of 200 "Showrunner Rules," which are handily archived here thanks to fellow blog warrior Scott Myers of Go Into The Story.
And don't forget to follow Jeff on Twitter.
In our first segment, I dive right in and ask Jeff how he got his first agent.
In our second segment, Jeff discusses his first script sale, his first produced film, and his shift from features into television.
Come back every day this week for the remaining parts of the interview!
Part 3 - The early genesis of Lost
Part 4 - The process of developing a show
Part 5 - Cable TV vs. Network TV
Part 6 - The Bitter Questions
Monday, October 7, 2013
My appearance on Hollywood Bound and Down podcast
I'm the featured guest this week on Joshua Caldwell's podcast Hollywood Bound and Down. In a chat of about 90 minutes (geez, I'm long-winded), you can find out a great deal about me as Josh and I talk about climbing the ladder in Hollywood, some of my experiences in development, and a lot of talk about the projects I involved myself in in college.
I haven't listened to it yet. (Contrary to what the long interview might lead you to believe, I kinda hate the sound of my own voice in long stretches.) However, I remember that Josh asked a lot of interesting questions even though I had been concerned he'd hit on the same subjects I see asked about again and again in my inbox. I hope you guys enjoy it, and if you're curious about the podcast in general, here's a handy introduction below...
Hollywood Bound and Down is a podcast hosted by writer, director, producer and MTV Movie Award winner Joshua Caldwell. Interviewing industry professionals Joshua explores the world of Hollywood for those at the beginning of the careers and discusses how they became successful, broke in, got their start, the art and craft of making films, television, web series and more. His guests to date include actress Missy Peregrym (Rookie Blue), Writer/Director Eric England (Contracted), Writer/Director Julian Higgins (House), actor Manny Montana (Graceland), screenwriter Kyle Ward (Machete Kills) and screenwriter/writer's assistant Adam Gaines (The Bridge).
Josh's twitter: @Joshua_Caldwell.
HBAD Twitter: @HBAD_Podcast.
Here's the iTunes link: Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hollywood-bound-down/id692417004?mt=2
My episode: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/007-bitter-script-reader-blogger/id692417004?i=168941430&mt=2
I haven't listened to it yet. (Contrary to what the long interview might lead you to believe, I kinda hate the sound of my own voice in long stretches.) However, I remember that Josh asked a lot of interesting questions even though I had been concerned he'd hit on the same subjects I see asked about again and again in my inbox. I hope you guys enjoy it, and if you're curious about the podcast in general, here's a handy introduction below...
Hollywood Bound and Down is a podcast hosted by writer, director, producer and MTV Movie Award winner Joshua Caldwell. Interviewing industry professionals Joshua explores the world of Hollywood for those at the beginning of the careers and discusses how they became successful, broke in, got their start, the art and craft of making films, television, web series and more. His guests to date include actress Missy Peregrym (Rookie Blue), Writer/Director Eric England (Contracted), Writer/Director Julian Higgins (House), actor Manny Montana (Graceland), screenwriter Kyle Ward (Machete Kills) and screenwriter/writer's assistant Adam Gaines (The Bridge).
Josh's twitter: @Joshua_Caldwell.
HBAD Twitter: @HBAD_Podcast.
Here's the iTunes link: Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hollywood-bound-down/id692417004?mt=2
My episode: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/007-bitter-script-reader-blogger/id692417004?i=168941430&mt=2
Thursday, July 11, 2013
Why would a pro use The Black List site? An interview with writer/director Derrick Borte
Two weeks ago I put out a call for loglines from people who had placed their scripts on the Black List site. My assumption was that everyone who replied would be hoping to attract an agent or a manager through the exposure. Honestly, it never occurred to me that anyone submitting would already have representation. I certainly couldn't have anticipated that at least one script would come from a writer who was not only repped, but who had also already directed a feature film, but that's exactly what happened.
Derrick Borte submitted H8RZ, a script he co-wrote with Daniel Forte. The two are repped at ICM and Echo Lake Management. Derrick also wrote and directed the 2009 David Duchovny/Demi Moore film THE JONESES. So what does a guy with all of this going for him think that some screenwriting blog and the Black List can do for him? To get those answers, I reached out to Derrick for a brief interview.
Most people who use the Black List site are amateurs hoping to get someone to represent them. Franklin Leonard has made some efforts at attracting pros to the site, but I suspect they're still a minority there. Can you talk a little bit about what you hope the Black List (and by extention, my blog) can do for you?
The first script I saw on the Black List was by a friend of mine who is a far more accomplished writer than myself, so I thought if he was using it to get his work out it could be a way to get more eyes on mine as well. I think that sometimes people need to be told what to like, and the fact that others approve of certain material seems to carry some weight. This material seems to be a little difficult for some people and I thought that maybe this could help build some momentum/buzz that might uncover some production company that I'd like to partner with to make the film.
What had your reps' strategy with regard to this script been up until now? When did you first hear about the Black List, and what was your reps response when you decided to put the script up there?
The script kind of got discovered on the talent side, where the response has been spectacular. I've been meeting with some great actors over the past few weeks and hope to have a few of the roles cast soon. My reps weren't really part of me submitting the script to the Black List, so I guess I'll know what they think shortly.
I know a young director who went wide with his own script many years ago and kept taking meetings with people who loved the writing but wanted someone else to direct. Has this been something that's happened with H8RZ? If so, is backing off from directing this an idea that you'd entertain?
That actually happened early with my first film, THE JONESES, which I only wrote it so I could direct. I held on for 7 years to finally direct it. I can't imagine any scenario that would get me to sell H8RZ without directing it myself.
Was there any quantifiable reaction to my blog post? Using the Black List stats, can you get a sense if my review was able to drive some traffic over to your page, and did that traffic convert into downloads?
The views went from 1 to over 70, and downloads popped quite a bit as well. Unfortunately the number of ratings hasn't gone past the 1.
Beyond plugging your script my page, do you have any other strategies for taking advantage of the Black List posting?
It would be great to get some buzz from the Black List, and your page has been great for visibility. I guess we'll see where this leads. As always, I'm just stoked to get great feedback on the work that Danny and I have done.
Check out H8RZ on the Black List.
Derrick Borte submitted H8RZ, a script he co-wrote with Daniel Forte. The two are repped at ICM and Echo Lake Management. Derrick also wrote and directed the 2009 David Duchovny/Demi Moore film THE JONESES. So what does a guy with all of this going for him think that some screenwriting blog and the Black List can do for him? To get those answers, I reached out to Derrick for a brief interview.
Most people who use the Black List site are amateurs hoping to get someone to represent them. Franklin Leonard has made some efforts at attracting pros to the site, but I suspect they're still a minority there. Can you talk a little bit about what you hope the Black List (and by extention, my blog) can do for you?
The first script I saw on the Black List was by a friend of mine who is a far more accomplished writer than myself, so I thought if he was using it to get his work out it could be a way to get more eyes on mine as well. I think that sometimes people need to be told what to like, and the fact that others approve of certain material seems to carry some weight. This material seems to be a little difficult for some people and I thought that maybe this could help build some momentum/buzz that might uncover some production company that I'd like to partner with to make the film.
What had your reps' strategy with regard to this script been up until now? When did you first hear about the Black List, and what was your reps response when you decided to put the script up there?
The script kind of got discovered on the talent side, where the response has been spectacular. I've been meeting with some great actors over the past few weeks and hope to have a few of the roles cast soon. My reps weren't really part of me submitting the script to the Black List, so I guess I'll know what they think shortly.
I know a young director who went wide with his own script many years ago and kept taking meetings with people who loved the writing but wanted someone else to direct. Has this been something that's happened with H8RZ? If so, is backing off from directing this an idea that you'd entertain?
That actually happened early with my first film, THE JONESES, which I only wrote it so I could direct. I held on for 7 years to finally direct it. I can't imagine any scenario that would get me to sell H8RZ without directing it myself.
Was there any quantifiable reaction to my blog post? Using the Black List stats, can you get a sense if my review was able to drive some traffic over to your page, and did that traffic convert into downloads?
The views went from 1 to over 70, and downloads popped quite a bit as well. Unfortunately the number of ratings hasn't gone past the 1.
Beyond plugging your script my page, do you have any other strategies for taking advantage of the Black List posting?
It would be great to get some buzz from the Black List, and your page has been great for visibility. I guess we'll see where this leads. As always, I'm just stoked to get great feedback on the work that Danny and I have done.
Check out H8RZ on the Black List.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012
Interview with Franklin Leonard of the Black List - Part 3 - The Black List Statistics
Part 1 - The Origin of the Black List
Part 2 - Criticisms of the Black List
In this final segment of my interview with Franklin Leonard, we discuss some of the statistics of the Black List. Also, I pitch Franklin an idea for notifying the Black List winners that's even more unexpected than the Twitter announcement this year. His response may surprise you.
Franklin also explains what he looks for as a development executive when he reads a script.
Thanks again to Franklin Leonard for being my first guest to return to the show! I hope you guys enjoyed the interview.
Part 2 - Criticisms of the Black List
In this final segment of my interview with Franklin Leonard, we discuss some of the statistics of the Black List. Also, I pitch Franklin an idea for notifying the Black List winners that's even more unexpected than the Twitter announcement this year. His response may surprise you.
Franklin also explains what he looks for as a development executive when he reads a script.
Thanks again to Franklin Leonard for being my first guest to return to the show! I hope you guys enjoyed the interview.
Monday, December 17, 2012
Interview with Franklin Leonard of the Black List - Part 2 - Criticisms of the Black List
Part 1 - The Origin of the Black List
So the new Black List is out! You can find it on their website here or you can just mosey on over to Go into the Story for the details.
Every year, the release of a new Black List is accompanied by some familiar complaints (and if I'm being frank, some misunderstandings) about the selections. While I had the list's creator, Franklin Leonard, in the hot seat, I couldn't resist asking him about this. So if you are suspicious that agents and managers try to manipulate the list, or you hate the fact that so many established writers are on it instead of undiscovered ones, you probably should take a look at this.
The final part will come tomorrow!
So the new Black List is out! You can find it on their website here or you can just mosey on over to Go into the Story for the details.
Every year, the release of a new Black List is accompanied by some familiar complaints (and if I'm being frank, some misunderstandings) about the selections. While I had the list's creator, Franklin Leonard, in the hot seat, I couldn't resist asking him about this. So if you are suspicious that agents and managers try to manipulate the list, or you hate the fact that so many established writers are on it instead of undiscovered ones, you probably should take a look at this.
The final part will come tomorrow!
Interview with Franklin Leonard of the Black List - Part 1 - The Origin of the Black List
Today at 9am PST, The 2012 Black List will be announced via Twitter at their handle @theblcklst. It's the highly-anticipated list of scripts in Hollywood that have been voted "most-liked" by a survey of Hollywood industry professionals.
But while we wait for that, perhaps you'd be interested in hearing the origins of the Black List, which is explored in the first part of my three-part interview with Black List creator Franklin Leonard. I've talked with Franklin before about Black List 3.0, but this time we're talking about the colonel's original recipe version of The Black List.
Part 2 - Criticisms of the Black List
But while we wait for that, perhaps you'd be interested in hearing the origins of the Black List, which is explored in the first part of my three-part interview with Black List creator Franklin Leonard. I've talked with Franklin before about Black List 3.0, but this time we're talking about the colonel's original recipe version of The Black List.
Part 2 - Criticisms of the Black List
Thursday, December 13, 2012
Interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier: Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Part 1 - His stats and process
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
And now we come to the conclusion of my interview with F. Scott Frazier.
As I've said before, I'm a big fan of Inside the Actor's Studio. It's my goal with these interviews to hopefully explore the craft of writing as well as James Lipton probes his subjects on the craft of acting. To that end, I plan on concluding each interview with "The Bitter Questions," a series of serious and silly questions that will hopefully allow the writers to reveal something unexpected about themselves.
If you're interested in seeing how Liz Tigelaar handled the same questions, you can find that segment here.
And that's a wrap on F. Scott Frazier! Thanks again to Scott for stopping by to chat. Keep sending in follow-up questions today and I'll pass them on to Scott.
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
And now we come to the conclusion of my interview with F. Scott Frazier.
As I've said before, I'm a big fan of Inside the Actor's Studio. It's my goal with these interviews to hopefully explore the craft of writing as well as James Lipton probes his subjects on the craft of acting. To that end, I plan on concluding each interview with "The Bitter Questions," a series of serious and silly questions that will hopefully allow the writers to reveal something unexpected about themselves.
If you're interested in seeing how Liz Tigelaar handled the same questions, you can find that segment here.
And that's a wrap on F. Scott Frazier! Thanks again to Scott for stopping by to chat. Keep sending in follow-up questions today and I'll pass them on to Scott.
Wednesday, December 12, 2012
Interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier: Part 3 - "The Working Writer"
Part 1 - His stats and process
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Our chat with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier continues with a discussion of some of the realities of being a working writer, including going on meetings, dealing with notes, pitching for assignment work and dealing with rewrites.
As I said yesterday, feel free to submit follow up questions and I'll forward them on to Scott.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Our chat with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier continues with a discussion of some of the realities of being a working writer, including going on meetings, dealing with notes, pitching for assignment work and dealing with rewrites.
As I said yesterday, feel free to submit follow up questions and I'll forward them on to Scott.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier: Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Part 1 - His stats and process
In this segment of my interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier, I ask him the question every writer gets from aspiring writers: "How did you get your agent?"
I've talked to Scott and he's agreed to answer any follow-up questions you guys have. Just leave them as comments or email them to me and I'll pass them on for Scott to answer in a post sometime next week.
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
In this segment of my interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier, I ask him the question every writer gets from aspiring writers: "How did you get your agent?"
I've talked to Scott and he's agreed to answer any follow-up questions you guys have. Just leave them as comments or email them to me and I'll pass them on for Scott to answer in a post sometime next week.
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Monday, December 10, 2012
Interview with screenwriter F. Scott Frazier: Part 1 - "His stats and process"
The new Black List is upon us and what better way to celebrate that fact than a chat with one of the honorees on last year's list, F. Scott Frazier.
Scott landed on last year's list with Line of Sight, which is currently in development over at Warner Bros., but Line of Sight was actually his third sale, and he's had three subsequent sales since then. Yes, that means that Scott has sold six projects in about a two-year period. A guy that successful might be someone you'd be interested in learning from, no?
In the first part of our chat, Scott and I run down his stats and talk a little bit about his creative process.
Many thanks to Scott for sitting down for our chat! Come back tomorrow for more with F. Scott Frazier. And I highly suggest everyone follow him on Twitter at @ScreenWritten.
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Scott landed on last year's list with Line of Sight, which is currently in development over at Warner Bros., but Line of Sight was actually his third sale, and he's had three subsequent sales since then. Yes, that means that Scott has sold six projects in about a two-year period. A guy that successful might be someone you'd be interested in learning from, no?
In the first part of our chat, Scott and I run down his stats and talk a little bit about his creative process.
Many thanks to Scott for sitting down for our chat! Come back tomorrow for more with F. Scott Frazier. And I highly suggest everyone follow him on Twitter at @ScreenWritten.
Part 2 - "How do you get an agent?"
Part 3 - The Working Writer.
Part 4 - The Bitter Questions
Tuesday, October 16, 2012
EXCLUSIVE interview with Franklin Leonard about Black List 3.0!
As promised yesterday, here's my EXCLUSIVE video interview with Black List creator Franklin Leonard about the site's newly launched service, Black List 3.0.
For those who don't know, the Black List has been around since 2005 and is is an annual list of Hollywood's most liked unproduced screenplays. As their website boasts, "Since its inception, more than 125 past Black List scripts have become theatrically released feature films grossing over $11 billion in total and winning 20 Academy Awards from over 80 nominations. Both 2010 and 2011 Academy Award Best Pictures THE KING’S SPEECH and SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE were Black List scripts. Along with Diablo Cody’s JUNO and Aaron Sorkin’s THE SOCIAL NETWORK, Black List scripts have won four of the last eight screenwriting Academy Awards."
Franklin Leonard has worked in Hollywood since 2002 and was most recently Vice President, Creative Affairs at Overbrook Entertainment. Before that he was a Director of Development at Universal and has also worked at Appian Way.
(Apologies for some of the sound issues, folks. One of our mics decided to have a little fun with us.)
Franklin wanted me to correct two misstatments he makes in the interview. First, current membership is at over 1,100, not one thousand. Also, the site only has about 3600 titles on it, not 5000.
Hopefully you found this interview useful and please pass it along!
Related: The What, How, and Why of the Black List: The Long Answer by Franklin Leonard
For those who don't know, the Black List has been around since 2005 and is is an annual list of Hollywood's most liked unproduced screenplays. As their website boasts, "Since its inception, more than 125 past Black List scripts have become theatrically released feature films grossing over $11 billion in total and winning 20 Academy Awards from over 80 nominations. Both 2010 and 2011 Academy Award Best Pictures THE KING’S SPEECH and SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE were Black List scripts. Along with Diablo Cody’s JUNO and Aaron Sorkin’s THE SOCIAL NETWORK, Black List scripts have won four of the last eight screenwriting Academy Awards."
Franklin Leonard has worked in Hollywood since 2002 and was most recently Vice President, Creative Affairs at Overbrook Entertainment. Before that he was a Director of Development at Universal and has also worked at Appian Way.
(Apologies for some of the sound issues, folks. One of our mics decided to have a little fun with us.)
Franklin wanted me to correct two misstatments he makes in the interview. First, current membership is at over 1,100, not one thousand. Also, the site only has about 3600 titles on it, not 5000.
Hopefully you found this interview useful and please pass it along!
Related: The What, How, and Why of the Black List: The Long Answer by Franklin Leonard
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